TwinTurbo.NET: Nissan 300ZX forum - Re: you're wrong
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Subject Re: you're wrong
     
Posted by Tech@EPR on September 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM
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In Reply To you're wrong posted by aliaZ on September 18, 2010 at 05:19 PM
     
Message The suggested springs jwt states def are not suited for 8000rpms. The HD springs are def required and highly suggested over the ones jwt suggests.
Incorrect. This cam profile was designed specifically for this spring. The JWT HD spring is NOT recommended with this particular cam because the lobe tip stresses are too high.

No you don't design cams around a spring. No clue where you looked that info up. You build a spring around the cam as you need spring rate based on lift and duration attributes. JWT (Clark Steppler) suggests running the spring they designate for this cam because they are fearful of flattening the cam lobe due to inexperienced installers and customers in assembling and using these cams. These cams are still not tested and show NO data on power out put and so forth. This cam was derived to suffice Mike Smith since he wanted to try and adapt some VQ valve train components into the VG cylinder head. If you do the proper method of clearance and breakin method which is completely different than a normal break in procedure these cams will be fine. Additives must be introduced into the oil during this break in period. This particular set of cams are quenched different thus making them harder. How much harder, that has not been shown or specified but Clark expressed to me that these are in fact harder.

The springs go into harmonic flutter and will not control the valve past 5500 rpm.
And you verified this how? You have a history of NOT testing.


Here is my proof of harmonics using these valve springs that JWT suggests.



I've done spring rates on ALL the valve springs on the market with the exception of Z1s and the only two I'd even suggest running are JWT HD springs and the Supertechs for this solid camshaft setup.

There is no intake seat angle left. The exhausts have been completely beaten down. I cleaned the valves and tried to lap them in. Nothing was coming in at all. As I stated, inadequate spring pressure will cause this and with this suggested spring only have 45-50lbs at seat and 140 open pressure that is FAR too light of a spring to run with these. We don't have oil dampening the harmonics but have a direct engagement of the valve to lifter to cam. This needs a better controlled spring to function this system properly.


Anytime you go with a solid lifter/cam outfit spring pressure has to increase go control valve action and increased harmonics.
Incorrect again. The solid lifter bucket is much lighter than the hydraulic lifter, and requires less spring.

WRONG

Sorry man. But you are wrong again. How else are you going to control the harmonics and valve float with a lesser rated spring? You can't. No matter what engine OHC or push rod equipped the valve train must have a valve spring stiff enough to control the valve. period. That crap about overhead weight is false and a theory. Sorry man but it sounds nice but isnt right

I've tested both springs and jwt suggested spring is inferior.
Your opinion is incorrect in this application. You are doing your customers a disservice by suggesting this valve spring.

you reciting what someone else says and not having any real life experience with this setup is a disservice. What have you done with these cams/springs/lifters? I'm curious to know.

Don't always go by manufactures suggestions. Put the book down.
Here is a tip: When you don't know the answer, don't guess. Pick up the phone and call someone who knows the answers.

Yea I did that originally and when I finally got the real answers out of them it was a bit discouraging to find out. I'm not going to post up what I know to be a lie or a bullshit answer Don. Stop believing all the stuff that others tell you and recite it. Get in there and do the work and look for yourself.


For the record: DO NOT use the JWT HD springs with this cam. Doing so may result in premature cam failure due to excessive lope tip stresses.

And you know this how? Let me guess you "talked" to someone right? Even to this day Clark has no evidence to state that "this" will cause an issue. He speculates this which is what you are so happily reciting. I've spent the time looking and researching and measuring and configuring valve train components for these heads and I can tell you that if you do the right stuff and properly break in the components and clearance items correctly you WILL NOT have issues.

To the original poster. Good luck in whatever avenue you go. This pissing contest between myself and Don does nothing for you I know but I just wanted you to know the facts in what I've come across and know. Others can tell you what they want which is fine but I've dealt with these cams on more than one occasion and I've seen the same issues on both cases.

     
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